From braden@shadow.net Thu Aug  3 10:26:02 EDT 1995
Article: 35460 of rec.games.mecha
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From: braden@shadow.net (Braden McDaniel)
Newsgroups: rec.games.mecha,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic
Subject: Re: MW2 Joystick woes (was Re: MW2 comments and questions)
Date: Thu, 03 Aug 95 01:44:46 GMT
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In article <3vjugq$dr7@ni1.ni.net>, masc@phoenixx.com (B Masc) wrote:
>In article <3vhh6u$956@anshar.shadow.net>,
>   braden@shadow.net (Braden McDaniel) wrote:
>>I think what is really necessary is not to modify the joystick 
>>driver to keep from autocentering, but to get a joystick that does 
>>not autocenter. Making the game not respond to a joystick's physical 
>>autocentering wouldn't work, IMO.
>
>A Thrustmaster F-16 FLCS is considered the Rolls Royce of joysticks,
>it costs over 130 dollars. All _GOOD_ simulator software companies
>make sure to support their setup. It is pratically the standard for
>flight sims. For a company to release a product that does not 
>properly support this setup is foolish. (I know as a fact that 
>Thrustmaster sent MWII developers complete Joystick & rudder setups 
>so they could get it right, but sadly that hasn't happened)

Okay. I don't see what that has to do with the bit you quoted from 
me...but okay.

>> Think about it. You push the stick 
>>all the way up, and your torso tilts all the way down. Now, to tilt 
>>all the way up, you must pull the stick back (to get to center), let 
>>go, and pull the stick back again. That's no good.
>
>If you've played EarthSiege using Will's configuration you would know 
>that non-centering handles like a dream. If you push your stick 
>lightly to the left, your torso twists SLOWLY to the left until you 
>release the joystick. It then stops and stays in the position you 
>leave it (supposed you want to target a mechs legs for instance.) If 
>you need to QUICKLY move your torso, push _hard_ on the stick and 
>your torso moves _quickly_ in whichever direction you pushed the 
>stick. If you need to make minor corrections in your aim (and 
>considering BOTH you and your target are moving, you are _always_ 
>making corrections to your aim) you just lightly tap the joystick 
>left or right (or up or down) to track the moving mech. The way MWII 
>is designed however, you must HOLD the stick EXACTLY in the position 
>you want it to aim. Which is (if you have tried it yourself) 
>IMPOSSIBLE to try to track a distant enemy mech (or even a close
>mech if you are trying to attack its legs.) Makes the game unplayable 
>with what should be the 'dream' setup for a mech sim. Hard to believe 
>they can come so close to making the perfect mech sim and yet miss 
>something as basic as decent joystick control. Frustrating. Oh well 
>back to EarthSiege...sigh... BTW both EarthSiege and MWII have an 
>"auto-center" button on the keyboard, so if you wanted to autocenter 
>you could use that. Why force this auto-center "feature" on us 
>joystick users when a auto-center button is already included?

Okay, after thinking about this a bit more, I realized how it would 
work if the game didn't respond to the joystick's physical 
autocentering (i.e., exactly as you describe). And I agree, this would 
be better. I think this is an option that really should be added in a 
patch. I find the joystick control of the turret unmanageable as well 
(the L/R directions, anyway...I find U/D easier to deal with), and I 
have been using either the keyboard or the mouse to control the 
turret. The mouse is ery effective for this, but it takes some getting 
used to (for someone who never flys flight sims with a mouse, anyway).

>>> use the pedals for 
>>>chassis L/R, and the throttle for, yes, the throttle.  Which is 
>>>(those evil words:) like EarthSiege would do.  
>>
>>I don't like the way the game handles reversing. When I pull the 
>>throttle all the way back, I'd like to be going full reverse. When I 
>>push it all the way forward, I'd like to be going full forward. I 
>>don't like having to press a key to reverse throttle.
>
>True, but compared to the terrible stick control, this is acceptable.
>But in case you didn't know this is how it's done in the Virtual 
>World BattleTech games (which BTW like EarthSiege and unlike MWII 
>DOESN'T have auto-centering)

But at least I'd like to be able to assign a joystick button to the 
reverse command. Oh, well. Looks like it's time I started looking at 
dedicated throttle controls...or at least a programmable joystick.

Braden